1 EMPLOYEE FATALITIES, CSX/AMTRAK, · 27-06-2017 · SMART STEVE AMMONS, System Road Foreman CSX...

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Free State Reporting, Inc.(410) 974-0947

UNITED STATES OF AMERICA

NATIONAL TRANSPORTATION SAFETY BOARD

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *Investigation of: * *EMPLOYEE FATALITIES, CSX/AMTRAK, *IVY CITY, WASHINGTON, D. C. * Accident No. : DCA17MH010JUNE 27, 2017 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

Interview of: SAHARA REESE

Gallaudet University Washington, D. C.

Thursday, June 29, 2017

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APPEARANCES:

RYAN FRIGO, Operations Group Chairman National Transportation Safety Board

STEPHEN JENNER, Ph. D. , Human Performance Group Chairman National Transportation Safety Board

THERESA IMPASTATO Amtrak

CARL FIELDS, Safety Task Force Brotherhood of Locomotive Engineers and Trainmen (BLET)

WILLIAM BATES, National Transportation Safety Team SMART

STEVE AMMONS, System Road Foreman CSX Transportation

SEAN ANDERSON, Investigator in Charge Region 2 Federal Railroad Administration

JOE BOTTIGLIERI, Esq.(On behalf of Ms. Reese)

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I N D E XITEM PAGE

Interview of Sahara Reese: By Mr. Frigo 5

By Dr. Jenner 14

By Mr. Fields 18

By Mr. Ammons 19

By Mr. Anderson 20

By Dr. Jenner 24

By Mr. Fields 31

By Mr. Anderson 32 By Mr. Frigo 35

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I N T E R V I E W1

MR. FRIGO: My name is Ryan Frigo. I' m an investigator with2

the National Transportation Safety Board. Today is June 29, ' 17,3

and we are at Gallaudet University in Washington, D. C. The4

accident reference number is DCA17MR010. And this is in reference5

to two worker fatalities in Ivy City, D. C. And we are speaking6

with Ms. Sahara Reese, who is an engineer at Amtrak. 7

At this point, we' ll go around the room and introduce8

ourselves, and please spell your last name for the benefit of the9

transcriptionist. I' ll start out and then pass to my right. 10

My name is Ryan Frigo, F R I G O, operations investigator,11

NTSB. 12

DR. JENNER: Stephen Jenner, S T E P H E N, J E N N E R,13

human performance with the NTSB. 14

MR. FIELDS: Carl Fields, F I E L D S, Brotherhood of15

Locomotive Engineers and Trainmen, Safety Task Force. 16

MR. BATES: William Bates, B A T E S, SMART National17

Transportation Safety Team. 18

MR. AMMONS: Steve Ammons, A M M O N S, CSX system road19

foreman, operating practice. 20

MR. ANDERSON: Sean, S E A N, Anderson, A N D E R S O N,21

Region 2 with the FRA. I' m the IIC. 22

MS. IMPASTATO: Theresa Impastato, I M P A S T A T O, Amtrak. 23

MS. REESE: Sahara Reese, R E E S E, engineer for Amtrak. 24

MR. FRIGO: And, Ms. Reese, do you wish to have a25

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representative here with you today?1

MS. REESE: Yes.2

MR. BOTTIGLIERI: My name is Joe Bottiglieri, 3

B O T T I G L I E R I.4

MR. FRIGO: Okay. Thank you. 5

And, Ms. Reese, do we have your permission to record our6

conversation with you today?7

MS. REESE: Yes. 8

MR. FRIGO: Okay. And I also have to let you know that a9

copy of this transcript will go in the public docket for this10

accident. 11

MS. REESE: Okay. 12

MR. FRIGO: Okay. Is it okay if we proceed on a first-name13

basis?14

MS. REESE: Sure. 15

MR. FRIGO: Okay. Thank you, Sahara.16

MS. REESE: Yes. 17

MR. FRIGO: Thank you. 18

INTERVIEW OF SAHARA REESE19

BY MR. FRIGO:20

Q. So, I just want to thank you for being here today and for21

talking with us. When did you start working at Amtrak?22

A. December 11th, 2012.23

Q. Okay. Did you start as an engineer?24

A. As an AC.25

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Q. As an AC.1

A. Uh-huh.2

Q. How long were you an AC?3

A. Up until September 14, 2014.4

Q. And at that point you became a -- 5

A. I went into training for engineering.6

Q. Okay. Do you remember how long that training was7

approximately?8

A. Mine almost lasted almost the whole 2 years. 9

Q. Okay. Okay. And when did you -- so when did you officially10

become an engineer?11

A. August 6, 2016.12

Q. Okay. Okay. And was your job as an assistant conductor, was13

that your first job at Amtrak?14

A. Yes. 15

Q. Okay. Have you had -- did you have any prior railroad16

experience before joining Amtrak?17

A. No. I went to advanced training at TCU. They kind of18

trained a little bit on the railroad.19

Q. Okay. I' d just like to ask a little bit about your20

experience and your history. And at Amtrak, have you been21

operating on the Northeast Corridor the whole time, or -- 22

A. Yes. 23

Q. Yes. Okay. Where do you -- can you explain, you know, what24

that means? Like where do you -- what are your usual runs? What25

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does that look like? 1

A. Washington to -- I mean, the Washington, D. C. to New York.2

Or sometimes if I work MARC, Washington to Baltimore or3

Perryville. Work train, Odenton Yard, Ivy City, and the terminal.4

Q. So, you' re up and down the corridor a lot. And you also work5

MARC trains?6

A. Yes. 7

Q. Those are commuter trains. 8

A. Yes. 9

Q. Okay. So, Sahara, if you wouldn' t mind, if you could kind of10

walk us through when you went on duty the night of the accident.11

A. You want the whole duty, or you want from New York?12

Q. We can start -- your -- the whole duty. Whatever you want to13

talk about. 14

A. Okay. 15

Q. And, you know, I just -- I' d like to give you the floor and16

just let you kind of walk us through when you started that day17

and -- 18

A. I started at 1: 20. Well, sign-up time is 1: 20, for train19

2168. And it was a nice run. I got up to New York, had a break.20

My sign-up time for the train 175 is 6: 50. It was a little late,21

like 25 minutes late getting into New York. I' d say it came22

around -- I can' t even tell you exactly when it came. 23

We had our briefing, at 6: 50. I went and got something to24

eat. I waited on the train. And then when the train came in, I25

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got on the train. It was going good. I got to New Carrollton,1

put all my stuff up because I' m about to go into D. C. 2

Got into -- came up to automatic 13357, and that' s when it3

drops from approach -- I was approach medium -- approach limited.4

I' m sorry. So my cabs went off, I went into suppression. And I' m5

coming around a curve at that point too. I saw train 66 coming on6

the opposite. That was the first thing I -- like, came to me. So7

I dimmed my lights. Then I saw the track worker. So I just blew8

my horn. And I' m like, okay, they' re close. So I just kept9

blowing and I kept blowing. But as I' m getting closer I' m inching10

my brake on more. And as it happened, I dumped it. I transmitted11

emergency, emergency, emergency, and Amtrak train 175 is in12

emergency. I gave it a break because I was, yeah, a little shaky. 13

But I got on there. I called CTEC 1. Called them like three14

times -- three or four times, and they didn' t respond. I called15

my conductor and I told him, like, we just struck a trespasser. 16

And he said okay. 17

I called K Tower, because I was close enough. So I called K18

Tower. And K Tower was like he heard my transmission, he' s on the19

phone with authorities. I said okay. Then I called my conductor. 20

My conductor called me and said he need protection. I called K21

Tower for the protection because CTEC wasn' t answering. But K22

Tower said he couldn' t provide the protection, seeing that it was23

on the opposite side of CP Avenue. So I called CTEC again and24

they answered, CTEC 1. 25

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He asked -- I told him I was two cat poles from CP Avenue,1

and he was asking me where did I hit them. I said it was about 102

cat poles back. And he -- I said I think it was CSX workers3

because it was a CSX train stopped on CSX track. 4

And 66, they stopped. 66 -- 66 said that he stopped and he5

saw, and then I was -- say I needed protection on the west end.6

Because I don' t know what CSX track was called, I just said the7

west end of my train. I knew that was the west side. I said I8

need the protection on the west side of my train. And he said9

okay, you need north or south? I said I need west. He said okay,10

front or back? I said, well, north. I need the back part11

protected. He provided protection, and my conductor got down. 12

And he came up and he asked me was I okay, and to drink water. 13

And he went on and walked the train. 14

I stayed up front. I answered CTEC calls, as far as, you15

know, he kept asking where am I at. And he was talking to 66. 16

And that' s about it. 17

I waited on -- APD showed up on the scene first. Well, as18

far as talking to me, he came up. I was -- told him, I was like,19

I don' t know if I' m supposed to give you a statement without my20

road foreman, so I' m going to wait on my road foreman. And my21

road foreman, Dave Herring, came. He came up but he -- I told him22

can I give a statement? He said yes. While I was giving the23

statement, he downloaded me. I gave my statement to APD, and I24

wrote it down after the questions. 25

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I stayed on the motor for a little bit. That' s about -- I1

got down and went to the back and helped with the transfer and2

made announcements, and charged my phone. And I made a couple of3

calls on my phone. And that was about it. 4

Q. Okay. Thank you.5

A. Uh-huh.6

Q. Thank you. Are you doing okay?7

A. Yes. 8

Q. Okay. Thank you. 9

All right. I want to ask a few more questions related to10

after New Carrollton. 11

A. Okay. 12

Q. Up to the time of the accident.13

A. Okay. 14

Q. So you -- were you clearly able to identify that the two15

individuals were -- 16

A. CSX.17

Q. -- CSX employees?18

A. No.19

Q. Okay. 20

A. Because they had on reflective vests. Only reason I say they21

was -- I said I think they' re CSX employees because it was a CSX22

train stopped on the other side of me. So I put two and two23

together; I' m like it' s CSX employees. But it could have been24

track workers too. I think I said that over the radio. I said25

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either they was track workers or it was CSX employees, because1

they had on reflective vests.2

Q. Could you remember if they had on any other -- was there any3

other -- were there any hardhats on, or -- 4

A. No. No hardhats. Jeans. 5

Q. Okay. 6

A. And reflective vests. 7

Q. Any flashlights or anything that you saw?8

A. No. 9

Q. Okay. And do you remember when you first saw them where they10

were standing?11

A. They were walking. They wasn' t standing. They were walking.12

And when I came around the curve -- as soon as I came around the13

curve, like I said, I spotted 66 first and we both dimmed our14

lights because we was coming towards each other, and then I saw15

the CSX employees. And they was walking on the ties of my rail.16

So I knew they was close, so I hit my horn. I laid on the horn.17

And they didn' t look back. They didn' t move. And as I told you,18

as I got closer I just put the brake on. 19

Q. So do you -- 20

A. Distance -- are you trying to ask distance? 21

Q. Well, I was going to ask you if they were both -- were they22

both in the gauge of your track? 23

A. No. They was not -- no, both of them, they wasn' t in the24

gauge.25

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Q. They were not in the gauge?1

A. No. They was right on the side ties of the track. Of the2

rail. Of my right-hand rail.3

Q. Okay. All right. Both of them?4

A. Uh-huh. 5

Q. And were -- 6

A. They was walking behind each other, one behind each other.7

Q. One behind each other. 8

A. Uh-huh.9

Q. Okay. And do you recall -- you know how on the vests there' s10

the reflective tape?11

A. Uh-huh.12

Q. Do you remember anything about the reflective tape? Did you13

-- do you remember seeing, maybe, an X on the reflective tape14

or -- 15

A. No. It was the H.16

Q. It was an H? Okay. Okay. Thank you.17

A. Uh-huh.18

Q. And then as far as distance, when you first picked up sight19

of them, and I know we' ve -- you know, you mentioned 66 was right20

in the area. But can you recall maybe what cat pole or do you21

know an approximate location where you did pick up sight of them?22

A. I would say a little bit more than a cat pole. Not even --23

it' s estimating. I want to say a cat pole, about a cat pole.24

About a cat pole, because I clearly got on the straightaway while25

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I was blowing my horn. As far as my engine miles. So, yeah,1

about a cat pole.2

Q. Okay. Okay. And the other thing you mentioned, when you3

left New Carrollton you started getting your stuff together.4

A. Uh-huh.5

Q. What does that mean?6

A. Because I normally have out my NORAC, my --7

Q. Uh-huh.8

A. I have my NORAC. I have my papers out, as far as TSRBs, all9

that. I have all that out. So, I' m getting ready to go home. At10

New Carrollton I put my stuff up.11

Q. Okay. So you put it -- is that at the station stop, you do12

that?13

A. Yes. 14

Q. So, you put it all away in your -- back in your grip and -- 15

A. Uh-huh.16

Q. So essentially that your plan is when you arrive at the17

terminal -- 18

A. Yep, I have everything I need to do. 19

Q. -- and you head home?20

A. Uh-huh.21

Q. Okay. Thank you.22

A. Uh-huh.23

Q. You doing okay?24

A. Yes. 25

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MR. FRIGO: Okay. So, I' m going to ask Steve if he would ask1

some questions now.2

MS. REESE: Okay. 3

DR. JENNER: Okay. Great. Thank you. 4

BY DR. JENNER:5

Q. I' m going to jump around a little just to fill in some6

details. 7

A. Okay. 8

Q. You mentioned you got a signal approach limited. 9

A. Uh-huh. 10

Q. What does that require you to do?11

A. I must begin my -- begin reducing my speed to limited speed.12

Approaching the next signal at limited speed. 13

Q. And limited speed, what -- 14

A. Forty-five.15

Q. Okay. Overall, how did your train handle that day?16

A. My train was excellent. I had good brakes. 17

Q. Okay. The weather conditions on -- around the time of the18

accident, or after you left New Carrollton, how was your19

visibility and weather?20

A. It was good. It was nice. It was dark, but it was nice. 21

Q. Okay. And just to clarify, what track number were you22

operating on?23

A. Three.24

Q. Okay. And so you' re heading south on number 3 track. The25

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workers, were they to the left or to the right?1

A. They was to the right. 2

Q. They was to the right. But not walking in the gauge -- 3

A. No.4

Q. -- but walking between two sets of tracks?5

A. Yes. 6

Q. Okay. 7

A. But they was walking along my ties. 8

Q. On the -- around the -- walking on the ties, you think?9

A. Uh-huh. 10

Q. Okay. Approximately -- and any estimate is just fine. The11

distance when you came around the curve and the first thing you12

saw was the oncoming train.13

A. Uh-huh.14

Q. You dimmed the lights. 15

A. Uh-huh.16

Q. Did the other train dim their lights?17

A. Yes. 18

Q. Okay. Then you saw the workers.19

A. Uh-huh.20

Q. Again, the estimate of how far away, in terms of feet or21

seconds when you first saw them?22

A. If I -- I' m going to do seconds. 23

Q. Okay. 24

A. I' d say about a matter of 15 to 20 seconds.25

16


Q. Okay. So, given that, what did you do when you first saw1

them?2

A. I laid on my horn. 3

Q. Immediately? So 15 to 20 seconds away you -- 4

A. I laid on it. 5

Q. And was it a single horn blast -- 6

A. No.7

Q. -- or multiple?8

A. No, it was long. About -- long, short, long. I was just --9

wanted them to get out of the way. 10

Q. And from -- so you did that until what point?11

A. Up until I hit them.12

Q. So it was -- so you' re sounding your horn 15 or 20 seconds.13

A. Uh-huh.14

Q. And I think you describe you didn' t see them changing their15

pace or their direction?16

A. No.17

Q. Okay. What I' m trying to get is an understanding. The 6618

you end up passing, did they pass the crew before you hit them? 19

A. They didn' t.20

Q. Okay. So you -- 21

A. When it happened -- he saw it, because that' s how -- he22

passed after I did it. 23

Q. Okay. I' m sorry. You just said something, he saw that? He24

saw it?25

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A. He had to. Because the way it happened, it' s almost like we1

met at the same point. You understand what I' m saying?2

Q. Sure. But technically he passed just a moment before the3

strike?4

A. I want to say exactly -- either exactly when or just a little5

bit before. 6

Q. Okay. Okay. So I may have misunderstood that he passed7

after. So you' re thinking that the strike and you pass the other8

train just about the same time?9

A. Yes. I want to say we passed just about the same time as I10

hit them. Like not passed, but -- 11

Q. The single point of -- 12

A. Um-hum, me hitting when that happened. 13

Q. Okay. 14

A. So he had to see it because the way -- 15

Q. Okay. 16

A. That' s what I' m guessing. 17

Q. Now do you know -- could you hear if the other train was18

sounding its horn?19

A. You' re talking about CSX?20

Q. No. The passing -- 66. 21

A. To be honest, no, I don' t know if I -- if he was, I wasn' t --22

I was too busy focusing on that. And I' m short, so I stood up.23

You know, I' m like -- yeah. 24

Q. Uh-huh. Sure. 25

18


A. Okay. 1

Q. Okay. I think that' s all the questions I have for right now.2

A. Uh-huh. 3

Q. You good to go on, or you want to take a break? 4

A. I' m good. 5

Q. Okay. You' re doing great.6

A. Uh-huh. 7

DR. JENNER: Okay. We' ll just continue on. 8

MR. FRIGO: Okay. 9

BY MR. FIELDS: 10

Q. Thank you. Yeah, appreciate you being here. And just to go11

over a couple things real quick, if I may. There -- oh, excuse12

me. Carl Fields with the BLET. 13

They were walking with their backs to you as you saw them14

initially.15

A. Uh-huh.16

Q. And throughout, until the strike, their backs were to you?17

A. Uh-huh.18

Q. And they were walking on the tie butts, which is the tie19

that' s on the outer gauge of the rail -- 20

A. Yes. 21

Q. -- about a foot, foot and a half?22

A. Yes. 23

Q. Walking one in front of the other?24

A. Yes. 25

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Q. Did at any time when you laid on the horn, did they1

acknowledge with a hand wave or anything?2

A. No. No.3

MR. FIELDS: That' s all the questions I have. Thank you. 4

MS. REESE: Uh-huh. 5

MR. BATES: William Bates. No questions. 6

BY MR. AMMONS: 7

Q. Steve Ammons, CSX. Can you -- you said you were running on8

approach limited. 9

A. Yes. 10

Q. And so that requires you to reduce your speed -- 11

A. Yes. 12

Q. -- to 45. Had you started braking to do that? Had you13

started braking your train?14

A. I put my brake in minimum before I even get to the approach15

limited section.16

Q. So you put it in a minimum reduction before -- 17

A. Yes. Because I like to feel it. And then once the air18

stopping on, I put the suppression once I hit the signal. 19

Q. When you noticed the 66 coming to you and then right after20

that the two employees walking, were you still braking at that21

point?22

A. Yes. 23

Q. And had you furthered your braking, or were you in24

suppression at that point?25

20


A. I was in suppression. But -- 1

Q. So you were in suppression -- 2

A. -- my first -- 3

Q. I' m sorry, go ahead. 4

A. I was in suppression. When I start seeing them, I start5

inching to full service. 6

Q. Okay. I' m just taking some notes here, just what you said. 7

So you said you were in suppression when you saw them. And then8

you started inching towards full service -- 9

A. Yes. 10

Q. -- after seeing them and blowing the horn simultaneously.11

A. Yes. 12

Q. And did you ever place your train in emergency?13

A. Yes. 14

Q. And did -- when did you do that?15

A. Once I struck.16

MR. AMMONS: Okay. That' s all the questions I have. Thank17

you. 18

BY MR. ANDERSON: 19

Q. All right, Sahara, Sean Anderson with the FRA. First off,20

I' m real sorry that you had to experience what you experienced21

yesterday. I know it' s tough, and I' m very much grateful to have22

you here with us today to talk through this. 23

Now, yesterday, were you on the -- or are you currently on24

the extra board?25

21


A. Yes. 1

Q. Okay. So you' re kind of well-rounded as far as running2

different jobs. Correct?3

A. Uh-huh. 4

Q. You worked -- typically do you work at nights?5

A. Yes. I work all -- it goes -- with this, I' m in night6

rotation this week. 7

Q. Got you. Now you talked about when -- I think Mr. Frigo had8

mentioned, you said something about you had seen the 66 stopped. 9

Now did you have any radio communication with the 66?10

A. No.11

Q. You guys didn' t talk back and forth?12

A. No. 13

Q. Did you hear them talk to the dispatcher about -- 14

A. Yes. 15

Q. -- about the incident?16

A. Yes. 17

Q. What did you hear?18

A. He was saying he might need to inspect his train because he19

think part of it got on his train. He told them he was stopped20

also. He was like I' m stopped, I -- it was trespassers. He21

relayed that basically he was stopped at. That' s the part that I22

remember. 23

Q. Now is that where you come up with a kind of -- a good24

feeling that maybe he saw what took place?25

22


A. Yes. 1

Q. Okay. Just, I want to make sure to clarify this. Now when2

you stop at New Carrollton -- 3

A. Uh-huh.4

Q. I' ve rode with you in the past. You stop at New Carrollton,5

you put your grip away. 6

A. Uh-huh.7

Q. And you put all your paperwork away.8

A. Uh-huh. 9

Q. So, okay, and then once you depart New Carrollton, what is10

your -- what are you focused on? Walk me through your intentions11

at New Carrollton, until you get into -- 12

A. From the New Carrollton, it' s downhill. I don' t like to take13

work because I tend to put more brake on than I normally do. 14

Q. Right.15

A. So I release the brakes without giving power. I let it roll. 16

I give it -- I go -- to be honest, I' m thinking about the greaser17

that' s ahead (indiscernible) -- 18

Q. Uh-huh. 19

A. And I go past the greaser. I go full throttle. Actually, on20

3 track it was a 60. So I went full throttle but I pulled it back21

at 60. Because it was 60 from Carroll to Landover. And I put the22

cruise control on for 60, and I kept going. Once I cleared the23

Landover, I went up to a buck-25. I go up to a buck-25 till about24

-- where was that automatic? It' s the automatic after 130. But,25

23


and it' s an overhead bridge, and it' s the automatic. 1

Then I put my brake on, get the brake for 95 at 133. I put2

that on before the automatic because access will hit. So I put3

that on and then I go to full suppression. Get down to about 97,4

96, and I knock it off. I knocked it off. I go forward. Once I5

go -- because that' s uphill and I lose a lot of speed. I got up6

to like 93. I saw the automatic. I put the minimum, wait to the7

air blow out, then I go to suppression once I hit the automatic. 8

Q. Okay. 9

A. That' s when the cab struck. I have to stay in suppression. 10

Q. So you were preparing -- like everything you just explained11

there, you was preparing for the suppression -- 12

A. Yes. 13

Q. -- getting yourself down. Because eventually you know you' re14

going to be at -- having to get down to what?15

A. Forty-five.16

Q. Thank you. Okay. And then when you dumped the train or put17

the train into emergency, do you recall -- I mean, I know you were18

frantic at that point. 19

A. Uh-huh.20

Q. Did you look at the speedometer by chance to see what you21

were going, how fast?22

A. Uh-uh. No, I don' t -- I didn' t, I didn' t look at my23

speedometer or -- 24

Q. Okay. And then, not to bring this up, but as they' re -- you25

24


were coming up to them, did you notice anything in their hands at1

all?2

A. No.3

Q. You didn' t notice if maybe they were carrying a lantern or4

anything else?5

A. No, I did not. 6

MR. ANDERSON: Nothing? Okay. All right. Thank you. So,7

I' m sorry, once again. I have nothing else right now. 8

MS. IMPASTATO: Theresa Impastato. I have no questions.9

MR. FRIGO: You doing okay? 10

All right. We' ll go around one more time and ask questions. 11

Is that okay with you?12

MS. REESE: Okay. Let' s go. 13

MR. FRIGO: Or do you want to take a break? Let' s go. 14

MR. BOTTIGLIERI: You want to take a break before they15

continue or you want to just -- 16

MS. REESE: No, let' s go. 17

MR. BOTTIGLIERI: -- continue on?18

MS. REESE: Uh-uh. Let' s go.19

MR. FRIGO: Okay. I don' t have any further questions.20

MS. REESE: Okay. 21

MR. FRIGO: Okay. 22

DR. JENNER: Just a few. 23

MS. REESE: Okay. 24

BY DR. JENNER: 25

25


Q. When you first saw the CSX train, did you know it was there?1

I mean beforehand.2

A. Well, when you come out the curve that' s when we meet. So I3

came out the curve, he was like right ahead. So I came out the4

curve, I saw him, and he was far away. So it' s like this. When5

we began to meet, that' s when they was right there. When the6

tracks begin to get closer. 7

Q. Uh-huh.8

A. That' s when they were -- that' s where they was kind of at.9

So I did -- I saw them out of a corner view. I could say that. 10

Q. Right. Did you know in advance that the CSX train was11

stopped?12

A. Oh, no. No.13

Q. Okay. 14

MR. FRIGO: And can we just clarify, when you say you saw15

them -- 16

MS. REESE: Uh-huh.17

MR. FRIGO: -- do you mean the CSX train or the workers?18

MS. REESE: The -- I seen the CSX workers. I saw out of my19

peripheral, the train. But I -- what I was more -- when I came20

around the curve, I focused on 66 because they had their brights21

on. So we dimmed our brights. Then that' s when I was like, wait,22

I have CSX workers, the train. 23

BY DR. JENNER: 24

Q. Uh-huh.25

26


A. So, yeah. 1

Q. Sure. Okay. So, to summarize, you didn' t know that there2

was a stopped CSX train there in advance, and you didn' t know3

there were any workers on the tracks.4

A. No.5

Q. Let me ask you a hypothetical question.6

A. Uh-huh.7

Q. If you had known in advance that there was a stopped train8

and possibly some workers, does that change the way you handle9

your train?10

A. Yes. 11

Q. How so?12

A. I drop down to restricted speed, 15. That' s -- 13

Q. Is that by rule, or is that your personal -- 14

A. No. That' s me personally.15

Q. Okay. Why -- can you explain your decision to do that?16

A. Because potentially I can stop. I' d rather be able to stop17

than to go by normal speed and I can' t. 18

Q. Okay. So if you just saw a stopped train and didn' t know19

anything else, would you still reduce your speed?20

A. No.21

Q. So you would reduce it under what circumstances?22

A. Yes. Under per rule. But if I knew it was people on the23

track, I go to restricted speed, 15. 24

Q. Okay. And again, that' s a personal preference? Did that25

27


ever come up in your Amtrak training?1

A. No, just personal.2

Q. Okay. 3

A. At training, the engineers do different things. And he --4

they told me to do whatever I feel is best. And that' s what I5

feel. 6

Q. How often do you come across those circumstances in your D. C.7

to New York run, that you see people on the track doing some sort8

of -- 9

A. Oh, my goodness, every day. That' s an everyday thing for me.10

But they normally move.11

Q. Right.12

A. Yes. 13

Q. Move as a result of your sounding the horn?14

A. Sounding the horn. Playing chicken. Or they see me. 15

MR. BOTTIGLIERI: You need to clarify if you' re talking about16

employees or people. 17

MS. REESE: Yeah. Which one you talking about? Employees or18

people? Employees stay out of my way. They -- I don' t see19

employees too much by my track. If they are, they move. 20

BY DR. JENNER: 21

Q. Okay. So versus -- 22

A. People -- 23

Q. -- people, you know, trespassers or -- oh, you see them every24

day, is what you' re saying?25

28


A. I see people every day. 1

Q. Okay. I' m -- okay. In terms of employees -- 2

A. Employees we know normally. Well, I know. I' m going to just3

speak for myself.4

Q. Right.5

A. I know normally, and if I know that basically I' m -- in my6

head I' m thinking they got protection, so I go. I' ll go. 7

Q. Okay. So this train -- this stopped CSX train was 9-, 10,0008

feet. So would you have operated 15 miles per hour or at9

restricted speed for the entirety of --10

A. For the stopped train or for -- 11

Q. For the stopped CSX train.12

A. No, because the stopped train I' m thinking is already -- I13

would go. I wouldn' t even be at 15. But if a dispatcher called14

me and said it' s people -- 15

Q. Okay. 16

A. -- it' s people on the -- 17

Q. Right. If -- okay. I' m sorry. 18

A. -- at this milepost -- 19

Q. If it' s a situation where there' s a stopped train and you20

know there are people out there, would you then continue at21

restricted speed for the length of the train?22

A. No. Because I feel if there are people out they have23

protection and -- or they' re not on my side, because there' s24

already protection provided. So I would go. If the dispatcher25

29


tell me to also. Not go, but if the dispatcher say it' s people --1

it' s a CSX train stopped and it' s people on the tracks, in my head2

I -- okay, they know I' m coming, I would go.3

Q. Okay. Great. Thanks for discussing that with me. 4

As I promised, I just want a little bit about your -- we got5

some of your training experience. 6

A. Uh-huh. 7

Q. Were you injured in the accident?8

A. No.9

Q. Okay. How -- when you went on duty, how was your overall10

health? 11

A. I was okay.12

Q. Okay. Do you have any chronic conditions or any colds or13

allergies or things like that?14

A. No. As far as chronic, what you say -- 15

Q. Oh, like high blood pressure or -- 16

A. Oh, no.17

Q. -- heart disease or -- 18

A. No.19

Q. -- anything like that? Okay. So, overall you' re a healthy20

person?21

A. Uh-huh.22

Q. Okay. This incident happened on, I guess, Tuesday, Tuesday23

night. 24

A. Yes. 25

30


Q. Okay. Did you work -- 1

A. The day before?2

Q. -- the day before? 3

A. Yes. 4

Q. Okay. What time did you work the -- so the day before is5

Monday.6

A. Uh-huh.7

Q. When did you work Monday?8

A. I worked 148 up, and I deadheaded back, 1-7 back.9

Q. Can you tell me the times, roughly?10

A. When I got back or when I started? 11

Q. When you -- your on-duty and off-duty times?12

A. I started at 2: 25 and I was off at around, I want to say, 11-13

something. 14

Q. 11 p. m. -ish?15

A. Yes. P. M. 16

Q. Okay. So this is now Monday night, and what did you do17

Monday night after you went off duty?18

A. I went home.19

Q. Okay. How far is it to get home?20

A. Twenty minutes.21

Q. And when you -- what time did you wake up Tuesday?22

A. Tuesday, I woke up at 11.23

Q. 11 a. m. ?24

A. Uh-huh.25

31


Q. How did you feel? You feel rested that day?1

A. Yeah.2

Q. Okay. So as far -- from your perspective, a normal type of3

day? You felt good and weather was good and the operations were4

normal?5

A. Yes. 6

Q. Okay. Good to know. 7

DR. JENNER: Great. Thank you.8

BY MR. FIELDS: 9

Q. Carl Fields, BLET. One last question -- 10

A. Yes. 11

Q. -- if I may. When you were approaching the CSX train you12

said that -- I believe you said the Amtrak 66 was approaching you13

with their auxiliary lights on.14

A. Yes. 15

Q. So you dimmed yours?16

A. Yes. 17

Q. As you were coming around the curve, you saw the workers.18

Did you reapply -- put the auxiliary lights back on?19

A. No, but I blew my horn and that makes everything come on. 20

Q. Oh, it does?21

A. Yes. 22

Q. Now, do they pulsate or is it -- they stay -- 23

A. They' ll come on, and they bright. They -- how can I say it.24

The auxiliary lights, I believe, are pulsating. 25

32


Q. Okay. 1

A. But they are bright. They go bright. 2

MR. FIELDS: All right. That' s all I have. Thank you. 3

MR. BATES: No questions. 4

MR. AMMONS: No questions. 5

BY MR. ANDERSON: 6

Q. Sean Anderson, FRA. There was a little bit of talk about7

dispatcher and notification, things like that. And if the8

dispatcher had notified you that there was CSX workers that was on9

the ground -- 10

A. Uh-huh.11

Q. -- what would be the typical -- what would you have done at12

that point?13

A. I' d start blowing my horn before I get there. 14

Q. Okay. Do you reduce speed at all?15

A. No.16

Q. No? Okay. And that' s -- 17

A. Unless I was told. 18

Q. Unless you was told to do restricted speed? 19

A. Yes. 20

Q. Okay. Is that something -- let me ask you -- let me rephrase21

that. Do you ever have contact with the CSX dispatchers?22

A. No.23

Q. So they don' t ever come over to 92 to talk to you? 24

A. No.25

33


Q. And you don' t ever go over to 8 to talk to them?1

A. What' s 92 and what' s 8?2

Q. 92 is their -- your channel, and 8 is yours. 3

A. Oh. 4

Q. Yeah. But no, I mean, you guys don' t talk back and forth on5

those channels? 6

A. (No audible response. )7

Q. Okay. Is it typical for a train that' s broke down on your8

own railroad -- so you' ve got a train that' s broke down on Amtrak9

and you' ve got guys on the ground, what would you do in those10

circumstances?11

A. Well -- 12

Q. They' re going to go out -- they' ve got to inspect. 13

A. Yes. 14

Q. But you' re going to go by. Just tell -- walk me though that. 15

A. If it -- that' s restricted speed.16

Q. Okay. 17

A. From a mile of the rear of the train -- a mile from the rear18

of the train up until you reach the head -- well, it depends on19

which way I' m coming. 20

Q. Yeah. Yeah.21

A. Okay. 22

Q. Until you reach the end of their train?23

A. Yes. 24

Q. Their furtherest away? 25

34


A. Yes. 1

Q. Okay. You had mentioned earlier about after the incident it2

seemed as though you struggled to contact CTEC.3

A. Uh-huh. 4

Q. Is that -- 5

A. CTEC 1.6

Q. Yeah. Is that a typical issue of being able to get a hold of7

them? 8

A. Yeah. Sometimes I can' t -- the transmission won' t go through9

or they can' t hear us. So after a couple of times, like I said,10

I' ll contact --11

Q. K Tower.12

A. -- K Tower. 13

Q. Okay. All right. But, once again, K Tower couldn' t give you14

protection. You had to get it through CTEC?15

A. Uh-huh.16

Q. So is that a normal area where you have radio communication17

problems with CTEC?18

A. Yes. 19

MR. ANDERSON: Okay. And I think that' s good enough. I' m --20

I have no further questions. 21

MS. REESE: Okay. 22

MR. ANDERSON: Okay. Thank you so much. 23

MS. IMPASTATO: I have no questions. 24

MR. FRIGO: Okay. I -- everybody' s good? 25

35


BY MR. FRIGO: 1

Q. Okay. I' ve got one final question for you, and then we' ll2

give you a chance to clarify anything. 3

Is there anything that you can think of that could have4

prevented this accident?5

A. Don' t walk close to the tracks. And we was always told keep6

your head on a swivel. I know another train was coming, but --7

you know the opposite way, maybe. You still got to look both8

ways, no matter what. 9

I don' t know if their engineer saw me. Could have said hot10

rail. I don' t know if he did, because I don' t know if we on11

different channels or not. Maybe when they get in the area we can12

be on the same channel and I can get on the radio or something, I13

guess.14

MR. FRIGO: Thank you. 15

UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Yeah, thank you. 16

MR. FRIGO: Is there any clarification that you want to add? 17

MS. REESE: No. I don' t think so. 18

MR. FRIGO: All right. Okay. And with that, we' ll go off19

the record. 20

(Whereupon, the interview was concluded. )21

22

23

24

25


CERTIFICATE

This is to certify that the attached proceeding before the

NATIONAL TRANSPORTATION SAFETY BOARD

IN THE MATTER OF: EMPLOYEE FATALITIES, CSX/AMTRAK, IVY CITY, WASHINGTON, D. C. , JUNE 27, 2017 Interview of Sahara Reese

ACCIDENT NO. : DCA17MR010

PLACE: Washington, D. C.

DATE: June 29, 2017

was held according to the record, and that this is the original,

complete, true and accurate transcript which has been transcribed

to the best of my skill and ability.

__ Jane W. Gilliam Transcriber

1 EMPLOYEE FATALITIES, CSX/AMTRAK, · 27-06-2017 · SMART STEVE AMMONS, System Road Foreman CSX...

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Transcript of 1 EMPLOYEE FATALITIES, CSX/AMTRAK, · 27-06-2017 · SMART STEVE AMMONS, System Road Foreman CSX...